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Post by Caroline I on May 1, 2008 22:50:42 GMT 1
I personally believe 50% (half your treasury AGAIN) for a trade deal is utterly ridiculous.
If anything, the rate of interest should fall as a country gains more companies, not rise. The way it is at the moment, countries who are already able to afford the luxury of multiple companies then have their economies grow so fast, to the point where they are more than doubling a year is frankly absurd, in my opinion.
It has created a gap which cannot be closed, and I think this sort of discrepancy has the power to ruin the game.
As such, I think fifth and sixth companies should not be permitted, and for countries that already have them the caps and interest rates should be lower.
I do confess I feel it unlikely that this will happen, being that the people whose economies are growing so exponentially are also in command of the rules, yet I do believe they are fair enough to listen to my concerns.
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Post by Sultan Annatar I on May 1, 2008 23:00:48 GMT 1
It's 50% over a week. He can't get his money out without losing interest for a whole week. Besides, 4 Companies at 10% a day give you 46%
Besides. There is no such thing as winning in this game, in my opinion. There are far too many players.
As for the 5th and 6th Companies. They are meant to have a high price. If people by-pass the rules and buy them off the Minor Powers. In effect, the Minor Powers should hold the Land/Colonials to ransom and force them to pay more money.
There are at least 5 or 6 countries that started with a decent amount of Treasury that could get the point where myself and Mith are.
There is also the effective use of Reformations that can lead to you improving your Income. Something else which increases your Treasury.
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Post by Napoleon on May 1, 2008 23:01:26 GMT 1
I have voiced my own distaste of the Trade system before and I agree with you, however on another note. You will actually gain more than 50% intrest if you use all your trade companies to instant gold and so actually it is unlikely that anyone will even use that intrest rate.
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Post by Caroline I on May 1, 2008 23:09:58 GMT 1
Reforms get a couple of thousand here and there. These deals get millions for nothing. It seems stupid to me. Barely anyone can afford that amount of companies, I certainly can't, and no matter how many reforms I make will change that.
Okay then Keiran. Leave it the way it is. But at the moment, we've got you and Mith who are so far ahead you're financially, and thus militarily invincible. I just thought I'd raise the fact that I think you need to curb your economies big time, for the sake of the game.
And don't shout "But I've worked really hard for all my money". No you haven't. You've simply signed posts and money has materialised. I think it's time to rethink the system, for a next version of Apoca, if there is one.
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Post by Gustav IV Adolf on May 2, 2008 14:56:41 GMT 1
OOC: Ye i agree with tom, How much people make of these trades is incredible, how ever if that how the game works is tough really isn't it, however i think thier should be a fairer way of who gets what country, becuase of the different country's stats.
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Post by Sultan Annatar I on May 2, 2008 17:37:36 GMT 1
Reforms get a couple of thousand here and there. These deals get millions for nothing. It seems stupid to me. Barely anyone can afford that amount of companies, I certainly can't, and no matter how many reforms I make will change that. Millions for nothing... I like that. However, there's a flaw in your argument. He's lost his entire treasury for a whole week. He can't do anything at all. I refute that claim that we're militarily invincible. Granted Mith has a huge army, but that's because he's done reforms which have added in rulership points. Already that's 1 million LI for 5 reforms. Conscription charges are outrageous. Especially the amounts for going good/elite etc. Just because I have a huge treasury, does that mean that I am impeding on the progress of anyone else? No. What about France? They started off as a charmed nation of over 3 million troops. In effect, they should be the dominant force with effective use of reforms AND of the Trade Companies. Yes, I have simply signed posts and money has materialised, but that has stopped me progressing in other ways. I could have gone entirely militaristic and invaded lots of places like Africa, Arabia, Persia, or even consolidated my positioning in Europe by taking Wallachia and Moldavia. I made a choice that the Trade Companies would make the most effective use of my nation. In effect, I do see what you're saying. The countries which start with the most money, end up the richest. What Reece is saying is utter rubbish, to be quite frank. The staff make the game, so they should be able to choose which nation to play. But following on from what I said, not all the rich nations end up so powerful. Look at Russia for example, Stu came in and said that he was going to make effective use of the Trade Companies system, reformations and wars. He started on 1,400,000 Livre. I believe that he was boasting to Mith, right before he left, that on the following day he was to have 1,900,000 or something similar. And this is what? 3/4/5 weeks from opening? Going against what Scott said. I have made it easier for Minor Powers to get on the map and be a good nation. However, I'm flipping backwards and forwards here  , to Reece's point, I do propose that there should be a CoAG style game, where everyone starts equal and it's the people that have been playing the longest, putting in the most effort etc.. that hold the advantage. As to Grok's point. For someone that doesn't like it, you use it an awful lot. Plus you're damaging Morocco for it. If anything, this system of Apoca is the most fair that we have ever seen. It also gives an edge to Minor Powers, which has never been done before. In effect, this is Tom just moaning because he was made into a Land Power and has to bear the cost of it. |
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Post by Caroline I on May 2, 2008 17:50:32 GMT 1
No, not at all. I'm moaning because I was trundling along fine, and then this thread really really really annoyed me: HereBecause it just makes it plain to see that there's not much anyone can do to stop him from growing at such an astronomical pace, or challenge him whatsoever - which is boring. Forget it. |
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Post by Fat'h Ali Shah Qajar on May 2, 2008 18:06:48 GMT 1
I actually agree with Tom on this point, as there is really no way of stopping Keiran or Mith. This does not damage others games at the moment but could in the future.
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Post by Emperor Francis I on May 2, 2008 19:17:07 GMT 1
I have to say, Tom, that what I have done is got rich and powerful through good reforms. IF you had turned up, done increases, and posted reforms for France, it would be far more powerful than I currently am. What ruins games is when only one person puts the effort into their reforms and increases (like me and Keiran) when no one else does (Tom C, Scott and Stu, for instance).
I don't see why I should be made out to be the bad guy for putting the effort in when this massive gap has been caused by the inactivity of other players. Are you saying that I should be punished because the rest of you haven't been bothered to do good rulership-boosting reforms?
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Post by Napoleon on May 2, 2008 19:30:35 GMT 1
Keiran I may diasgree with the system but that doesn't mean I'm going to sit back and let France become weak due to some form of intrest in realism objection.
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Post by Caroline I on May 3, 2008 0:14:03 GMT 1
Are you saying that I should be punished because the rest of you haven't been bothered to do good rulership-boosting reforms? Yes. Moreover, just stop being defensive and read what I put originally, which was simply that 50% is too higher interest rate. That's all. *sigh* I suppose we've not all got the time to log on every day and be as good as you, Mith. |
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Post by Emperor Francis I on May 3, 2008 0:34:04 GMT 1
When you're as rich of me, you only need to log on once a week.
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Post by Caroline I on May 3, 2008 0:36:58 GMT 1
When you're as rich of me, you only need to log on once a week. Okay. I'll take that as a "No we're not going to change, or indeed even contemplate changing the trade rules." Alright. I'll just get some Coco Pops and go to bed now that's settled.  |
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Post by Luigi Cocastelli on May 3, 2008 12:27:57 GMT 1
I'm almost more active than you, especially now you're busy, and i don't have umpteen million Livre in the bank.
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Post by Sultan Annatar I on May 3, 2008 12:58:26 GMT 1
Are you saying that I should be punished because the rest of you haven't been bothered to do good rulership-boosting reforms? Yes. Moreover, just stop being defensive and read what I put originally, which was simply that 50% is too higher (sic) interest rate. It's not. Effectively speaking, if you don't hit the caps you can make: 1 *1.1 *1.1 *1.1 *1.1 *1.15 *1.15 which makes: 1.94. That means an effective 94% interest rate over one week. Because Mith has hit the caps, he can't make 94%. He can only make 50% |
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Post by Emperor Francis I on May 3, 2008 13:17:51 GMT 1
I'm almost more active than you, especially now you're busy, and i don't have umpteen million Livre in the bank. You're a small country - and that means you started off not very rich. The UK, France, Russia, and possibly Spain could be in the same league as me if their players had worked hard like I have. |
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Post by Mulay Slimane on May 3, 2008 13:49:47 GMT 1
I'm almost more active than you, especially now you're busy, and i don't have umpteen million Livre in the bank. You're a small country - and that means you started off not very rich. The UK, France, Russia, and possibly Spain could be in the same league as me if their players had worked hard like I have. Yer (Mith I think you could win it if you posted the stats of Austria before you started?)As I pressume Austria was at the bottom of the countries you just said and because you worked hard you got there but you can't really Blame Grok for what he said as you said they could have had more troops and money than you if Tom was online more. EDIT:I'm Kinda on both sides but a big IG bribe could swing me on to either side. |
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